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Don't look to the London Review of Books for illumination
Thanks to Andrew Sullivan for pointing out this essay by Anatol Lieven in the London Review of Books. As I noted in my post yesterday, I am very interested in the antiwar arguments, and have been looking far and wide for intelligent and honest debate. Alas, this wasn't it.
The most surprising thing about the Bush Administration's plan to invade Iraq is not that it is destructive of international order;
A phony "international order" whose reliance on jaw-jaw produced 3000 dead Americans. But it's the thought that counts. Better that a few thousand Americans die than to disturb the canape-passers.
or wicked, when we consider the role the US (and Britain) have played, and continue to play, in the Middle East;
Do you mean wicked as the liberators of Afghanistan? Or wicked as the soon-to-be liberators of Iraq? Or wicked as the guarantors of the only democracy in that region?
or opposed by the great majority of the international community;
There is no such thing as the international community. There are only self-interested states. That some oppose us matters not at all. They are looking out for their self-interest, as must we. You might as well have written "Oh no! the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy and the French oppose invasion!"
or seemingly contrary to some of the basic needs of the war against terrorism.
That is brainless, unsupportable drivel. Iraq is now the low-hanging-fruit in the war. It is not contrary to the war on terrorism; it is intrinsic to it. In any case, you don't support the War on Terrorism anyway, so why do you care?
Even the Washington Post has joined the radical rightist media in supporting war.
Yeah, when the center-left and the right agree, it must be something in the water. Or mass hysteria. Or medical marijuana.
The most surprising thing about the push for war is that it is so profoundly reckless.[...droning blather skipped...]A general Middle Eastern conflagration and the collapse of more pro-Western Arab states would lose us the war against terrorism, doom untold thousands of Western civilians to death in coming decades, and plunge the world economy into depression.
All those Arab states are such good allies in the war, and Saudi Arabia will never be a breeding ground for terrorism as long as its a plutocratic theocracy. Right? What on earth would make us so reckless?
These risks are not only to American (and British) lives and interests, but to the political future of the Administration. If the war goes badly wrong [...]its members will be finished politically - finished for good. If no other fear moved these people, you'd have thought this one would.
Gosh, those Republicans. You'd think that craven political considerations, at least, would prevent this? What could possibly have convinced them to take such risks?
The Administration has therefore been warned of the dangers. And while a new attack by al-Qaida during the war would help consolidate anti-Muslim American nationalism
Yeah, that anti-Muslim nationalism sure is a powerful argument. What a nitwit. You have an entire government mouthing the empty platitude 'Islam is peace', and this git calls that 'anti-Muslim nationalism.' What freaking world does he live in?
the Administration would also be widely accused of having neglected the hunt for the perpetrators of 11 September in order to pursue an irrelevant vendetta.
Well, Al Gore said it, but I don't think Al's gotten so fat that you can characterize him as "widely." No, there must be a reason why all those Americans are acting in such a reckless manner. They're acting as if they've been hypnotized or something. What group could do that? Who has that kind of control over the American government and media? Could it be???
As far as the Israeli lobby is concerned, a disaster in the Middle East might be the one thing that would at last bring a discussion of its calamitous role into the open in the US.
Of course!! IT'S THE J-E-W-S! They've done it again!
With the exception of Donald Rumsfeld [...] neither Bush nor any of the other prime movers of this war served in the military. Of course, General Colin Powell served in Vietnam [...] If the war goes wrong, the 'chicken hawk' charge will be used against them with devastating political effect.
Excuse me, but over here, we have this scrap of parchment called the Constitution, and it sort of mandates that civilians make decisions about war, not the military. And when guys like Oliver North got near White House policy, guys like you got the vapors. Pick one argument, or the other. Or, better yet, bite me.
To understand the Administration's motivation, it is necessary to appreciate the breathtaking scope of the domestic and global ambitions which the dominant neo-conservative nationalists hope to further by means of war, and which go way beyond their publicly stated goals.
That's right, it's those awful neocons at the Weekly Standard that are behind this! But wait, didn't they back McCain against Bush?
However, the basic and generally agreed plan is unilateral world domination through absolute military superiority
Pardon, me, pointy-head. You're saying that our supposed goal is to be militarily dominant. Uh, earth to Anatol, that's already a fact of life, and has been for over a decade.
To understand the genesis of this extraordinary ambition, it is also necessary to grasp the moral, cultural and intellectual world of American nationalism in which it has taken shape. This nationalism existed long before last September, but it has been inflamed by those attacks and, equally dangerously, it has become even more entwined with the nationalism of the Israeli Right.
But, wait! How can it be an 'ambition', if it is already a fact of life? Oh, I get it! It's more smoke and mirrors driven by those wily J-E-W-S!
There is little real fear, however, that Saddam Hussein will give those weapons to terrorists to use against the United States - though a more genuine fear that he might conceivably do so in the case of Israel.
This, dear reader, is what is known as "argument by assertion". Our friend Anatol attempts to convince us of Hussein's benign nature by stating it as a fact, rather than a point of contention. This might be a supportable assertion, or it might not, but it is certainly not an argument.
The banal propaganda portrayal of Saddam as a crazed and suicidal dictator plays well on the American street
No, you twit, it doesn't. What plays well is a careful assessment of Saddam's behavior, and a conclusion that he is a dangerous risk-taker and has frequently and foolishly risked his own destruction.

I'm going to have to skip a lot of his essay, and just pick out the half-way decent arguments. If I take on all of the easily rebutted points, this will become something a lot longer than I want. Hell, it's going to be longer than I want anyway.
To destroy and occupy the existing Iraqi state and dominate the region militarily would remove even the present limited threat from Opec, greatly reduce the chance of a new oil shock, and eliminate the need to woo and invest in Russia as an alternative source of energy.
Anatol, you must have only a passing familiarity with the esoteric notion "logic." Now, in your bizarro world, it is somehow cheaper or preferable to wage a war than to invest in a nation that is a model of stability in comparison to the Middle East. Yeah, I can see it. All together now, "It's all about OOOOIIIIIILLLL!"
It would also critically undermine the steps already taken towards the development of alternative sources of energy.
Yeah! Where's my nuclear power? Oh, blocked by pinheads like you.
The idea, in other words, is to scare these states not only into helping with the hunt for al-Qaida, but into capitulating to the US and, more important, Israeli agendas in the Middle East.
Can any leftist discuss this issue without resorting to canards about "Israeli agendas" or the "Zionist lobby"? Do you morons realize that you sound like Nazis? Let me make this very simple so you dolts can understand it:
1. The US supports free, democratic states that support us.
2. We will agree to disagree with free, democratic states that disagree with us.
3. We grudgingly tolerate unfree, undemocratic states that support us.
4. We will, eventually, overthrow unfree, undemocratic states that threaten us.
5. We will try very hard to replace them with free, democratic states.

End of story. And I didn't once mention "Israel" or "Jews" or "Zionism."
This was brought out in [...] the suppression of public criticism of the US and Israel within Saudi Arabia - something that would be impossible for any Arab state.
Oh, yes. It would be so hard to stop their government sanctioned, government financed media that spew anti-Israeli, anti-Jew, and anti-American propaganda. You utter idiot. You cannot see the difference between government propaganda and free speech. You are hopelessly, stubbornly stupid.
It's far more probable, therefore, that most members of the Bush and Sharon Administrations hope that the crushing of Iraq will so demoralise the Palestinians, and so reduce wider Arab support for them,
It's far more probable that you've been smoking crack, and the Bush Administration and most Americans don't think it has shit-all to do with the Palestinians.
After all, the Israelis have defeated Arab states five times with no diminution of Palestinian nationalism or Arab sympathy for it.
And in every defeat, the Israelis have held back from completely destroying the Arab armies due to mewling from people like you. Let's try handing the Arabs a few real defeats, and see what happens.
They are obsessed by power, by the division of the world into friends and enemies [...] and by the belief that any demonstration of 'weakness' immediately leads to more radical approaches by the 'enemy'.
So, by your attempt at logic, 22 years of ineffectual responses to Arab terrorism didn't embolden our enemies, and didn't contribute to 911. Talk about tone-deaf!
The 'offensive realists' in Washington are convinced that it was Reagan's harsh stance and acceleration of the arms race against the Soviet Union which brought about that state's collapse.
And you would suggest it was what, nuclear freeze activists? Amnesty International?The UN? The enlightened, benevolent nature of communism? The stench of your hypocricy?
On the other hand, even those members of the American political elite who have some understanding of the situation and a concern for justice are terrified of confronting Israel and the Israeli lobby
There we go again with the Jews. Get over it. We're not going to round them up and make them wear yellow stars, no matter how much you might like to see that. And what is this "some understanding" nonsense? A large number of Americans have a very good understanding of the situation, and can only conclude that you are either disingenuous, malicious, or stupid. Or all three.
The planned war against Iraq is not after all intended only to remove Saddam Hussein, but to destroy the structure of the Sunni-dominated Arab nationalist Iraqi state as it has existed since that country's inception. The 'democracy' which replaces it will presumably resemble that of Afghanistan - a ramshackle coalition of ethnic groups and warlords, utterly dependent on US military power and utterly subservient to US (and Israeli) wishes.
Quit with the Jews, already. Get this through your cement head: Jews don't control anyone other than themselves. Just like the rest of us humans. And I want to see your expression when, in some years time, we walk away from Afghanistan and it is a functioning multi-ethnic democracy. That is what we want, not some pauper state eternally dependent on us.
the guiding purpose of US strategy after the end of the Cold War should be to prevent the emergence of any 'peer competitor' anywhere in the world.
That has been the guiding strategy of the US since the Monroe Doctrine, you ignoramus. But in Monroe's day, our sphere of influence was limited by distances. Today, it is not.
If the US can demonstrate overwhelming military superiority in the Middle East, there will certainly be groups in the Republican Party who will be emboldened to push for a much tougher line on China. Above all, of course, they support formal independence for Taiwan.
Those damn right-wingers, always sticking up for the democracies against tyranny. Who the hell do they think they are? And, since when have we not operated from the assumption that it is necessary to contain China unless and until it becomes a free nation? Why do self-described "progressives" constantly knob-polish tyrants?
And all opinion polls suggest that the majority of the American public, insofar as it considers these issues at all, is far more interested than this Administration in co-operation with allies.
Gotta get in that obligatory dig at us insular, self-absorbed, ignorant Americans, doncha? Just keep supplying us with Britney and Soylent Green Matzos, and we'll stay fat, dumb, and happy.
As more companies collapse, the Administration's links to corrupt business oligarchies will become more and more controversial.
As I suppose the Democrat's links to corrupt businesses will become less controversial? There's plenty of dirty lucre to sully the whole lot of them.
It is only to a minimal degree within the power of any US administration to stimulate economic growth.
Oh my God, I think I'm going to faint. A pointy-headed leftist "intellectual" actually wrote something true.
This will mean the incomes of the 'middle classes' (which in American terminology includes the working proletariat) will continue to decline.
Did he just say "proletariat"? That is, like, so 1980 dude. Your letting your red underwear show. And this middle class prole saw his income triple in the last 4 years. If that's what you call a "decline", I'm all for it!
The first is the classic modern strategy of an endangered right-wing oligarchy, which is to divert mass discontent into nationalism. The second, which is specifically American, is to take the Jewish vote away from its traditional home in the Democratic Party
That's right. It's time I admit it. I am actually a tool of an endangered right wing oligarch. I not sure which one, but he's probably Jewish, too.
Of key importance here has been the growing alliance between the Christian Right - closely linked to the old White South - and the Israeli lobby, or at least its hardline Likud elements.
That is exactly wrong and a malicious slander against politically involved Christians. The people who make up the Christian right are the same people as the old Evangelical Left, alienated from the left by abortion politics. The same Evangelical Left that marched and protested and supported civil rights. The same Evangelical Left that despised Nixon, voted for Carter, and finally gave up on the Dems in the 1980 presidential election.
After all, the Christian Right and the White South were once havens of anti-semitic conspiracy theories.
Arabs and the Western left have taken over that franchise.
The Christian Right has always hated the United Nations, partly on straight nationalist grounds, but also because of bizarre fears of world government by the Antichrist.
And after the 2001 Durban Racist Hate-Fest, they have even more reason to despise the UN. And get your terms correct, you buffoon. Good Christians do not "hate" anyone. They might disapprove, moralize, even annoy, but they are not allowed to "hate."
Both sides share an instinctive love of military force.
No, both believe that self-defense is the right of every individual, whether you believe in God or not. "Instinctive" behavior is the province of flatworms and leftist intellectuals. The rest of us use our minds.
Finally, and most dangerously, both are conditioned to see themselves as defenders of 'civilisation' against 'savages' - a distinction always perceived on the Christian Right as in the main racially defined.
Another vile slander against Christians. Much to Anatol's joy, anti-Christian bigotry is still acceptable in his social circle.
It is no longer possible in America to speak openly in these terms of American blacks, Asians and Latinos - but since 11 September at least, it has been entirely possible to do so about Arabs and Muslims.
You mean in terms like this, or this? In fact, if you do a Google search on "US hate speech against Arabs", you will get thousands of hits, and I could not find a single hit that was not a left-wing website warning against it, or claiming that the Israelis are guilty of it. Not one real instance of it in the US. Now, I didn't look through them all, but I looked at several hundred. Clearly, that kind of speech is neither acceptable or widespread. Anatol, your whole argument is just another leftist lie.
Even in the 2000 elections, the Republicans were able to take a large part of the white working-class vote away from Gore by appealing to cultural populism - and especially to those opposed to gun control and environmental protection.
Shouldn't that read "those in favor of the Second Amendment and the Fifth Amendment?"
the Democrats could be reduced to a coalition of the declining unionised white working class, blacks and Latinos. And not only do these groups on the whole dislike and distrust each other,
Anatol, can you ever tear off those "racialist" blinders and see people as individuals, and not as mutually antagonistic groups?
Already, the anti-semitism of some black leaders in the Democratic Party has contributed to driving many Jews towards the Republicans;
It's also discrediting them, and you, in the eyes of gentiles.
it is no exaggeration to say that as a result the internationalist position in the Democratic Party and the US as a whole has been eviscerated.
And that's a good thing. Maybe they will begin working for their constituents instead of Kofi Annan and Robert Mugabe.
the Democrats are merely increasing their reputation for passionless feebleness;
They haven't hit rock bottom yet. They haven't nominated Dukakis for anything.
whereas the Republican nationalists are full of passionate intensity - the passion which in November 2000 helped them pressure the courts over the Florida vote and in effect steal the election.
I still get a kick out of these "stolen election" lines. If you cowards truly believed that, you would have taken up arms, or staged a general strike, or otherwise engaged in significant resistance. You did nothing but whine. You are only proving how shallow your beliefs (and your thinking) are.
To understand the radical nationalist Right in the US, and the dominant forces in the Bush Administration, it is necessary first of all to understand their absolute and absolutely sincere identification of themselves with the United States, to the point where the presence of any other group in government is seen as a usurpation, as profoundly and inherently illegitimate and 'un-American'.
Wow, I think you are engaging in projection, Anatol. You just accused Bush of usurpation, remember?
the Cold War also continued, fostered and legitimised a very old discourse of nationalist hatred in the US, ostensibly directed against the Communists and their allies but usually with a very strong colouring of ethnic chauvinism.
Yup, that whole Cold War thingy was ethnic. US against the Reds. But wait, weren't the "Reds" white Europeans? That screws up everything! How can we be bigoted against our own dominant ethnicity? Only you self-loathing leftists can pull that one off.
Their pathological hatred for the Clinton Administration cannot adequately be explained in terms of national security or even in rational political or economic terms.
You're right, it can't. It can be explained this way: We entrusted him with the presidency, and he lied to us. Over and over again. For no good reason other than to preserve his worthless hide. Fuck Him and His Robot Sidekick.
None of these fantasies is characteristic of the American people as a whole. But the intense solipsism of that people, its general ignorance of the world beyond America's shores, coupled with the effects of 11 September, have left tremendous political spaces...Or to put it another way: the great majority of the American people are not nearly as militarist, imperialist or aggressive as their German equivalents in 1914; but most German people in 1914 would at least have been able to find France on a map.
More gratuitous whacks at us ignorant Americans. Pull your head out of your Ivory Colon, Anatol. Americans are as well travelled as anyone. We know a heck of a lot more about the rest of the world than they know about us, especially if they get their information from the London Review Of Books.
What we see now is the tragedy of a great country, with noble impulses, successful institutions, magnificent historical achievements and immense energies, which has become a menace to itself and to mankind.
No, we have a nation every bit as admirable as you make it sound, which has become a menace to the governments that threaten it, and in the process become the greatest hope of the peoples they oppress.

Anatol, in the marketplace of ideas, you owe me a refund. And the people who believe your garbage are going to wind up with buyer's remorse.

Please stick to 'PG-13' language, or I'll tell your mother.

My God, what an astounding Fisk. I am in awe.

I do feel somewhat sorry for poor Anatol. He wants so much to be a white racist European, but it's against his Communist religion. So he has to obfuscate it behind doublespeak instead.

Or perhaps I don't. That idiot got what he deserved.
By: The Iconoclast on 09-29-02 09:59 PM PDT
: [1]
Don't feel sorry for this pinhead. He's got a cushy sinecure as an associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. He's just another British apologist for tyrants who has carved out a nice living for himself whining about the US. He is very much a part of the European foreign policy "establishment."

His homepage at the CEIP is here.
By: Kieran on 09-30-02 11:40 AM PDT
Email : Homepage : [2]
Three questions come to mind after reading this: how many hours did you spend going through each line of Lieven's work? What did you hope to achieve? And ever thought of getting a girlfriend? Because this is the sort of exercise only a lonely and very frustrated individual would engage in.

There's only one thing more shameful than being a chicken-hawk and that's being a virgin, which judging by this work you undoubtedly are.
By: Stuart Rushmore on 11-20-02 04:45 PM PDT
Email : Homepage : [4]
Well, Stuart, I'll answer your questions, and without stooping to juvenile sexual ad hominem.

how many hours did you spend going through each line

This probably took an hour. I was waiting for a large project to compile, and I had little else to do with the time.

What did you hope to achieve?

My own amusement. The fact that it bugs people like you is serendipitous.

And ever thought of getting a girlfriend?

Yes, but my wife didn't like her.

Because this is the sort of exercise only a lonely and very frustrated individual would engage in.

Lonely, no. I'm far too busy for that. Frustrated, yes. Frustrated that people like you and Mr. Lieven are taken seriously.

There's only one thing more shameful than being a chicken-hawk and that's being a virgin, which judging by this work you undoubtedly are.

Well, my two children (and my wife) will be disappointed to find that I'm not the father.

I'll ignore the chickenhawk slur, as it is transparently illogical and morally unsupportable.

Besides, why is "being a virgin" shameful? To quote the inimitable John Cleese, "You're a loon."
By: Kieran on 11-20-02 07:33 PM PDT
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I hate to break the news to you pal, but no one would to be disappointed to find that an irritating, preening pedant like you is not their father.
By: Mr Agreeable on 12-11-02 05:31 PM PDT
Email : Homepage : [6]
Ooooh! More schoolyard invective! You must have worked all week to come up with that.

I cannot express in words how happy I am that I irritate you.

You're not even worth the trouble of banning.
By: Kieran on 12-12-02 09:24 PM PDT
Email : Homepage : [7]

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